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Nihilistiskism
Lava Shark
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 5:00 pm Posts: 9238 Location: Texas
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 Re: TOTAL Dorath Control
My point is "Why?" Your deck, in its current iteration, is just like...what's going to win you the game? It might be irritating to play against, but that, to me, at least, is about all it is accomplishing at the moment. You should focus your attention on actually killing things from this point. You have a great big long list of "I'm going to do something that irritates you slightly" cards, but the deck is lacking, otherwise. I ran an extremely effective Dorath deck that was built around Dreamslayer, Jackhals of Mourne, Face of Mirrors, Illusionary Script, Wheel of Death, Phantasm, Illusory Form, Waking Terrors, Paralysis Ward, Severed of Flesh, Reflect, Stolen Destiny, Barrow Wight, and Barnas. The deck was exceptionally powerful. Why? The right combination of control and blitz. The deck hit hard, relatively fast, and had nifty irritations for the opponent. Phantasm a Jackhals into play, attack with it, bounce it to your hand, play Illusionary Script, retrieve another Jackhals, play Jackhals, blink it forward, attack, play Jackhals, blink it forward, attack. WOW! How about spend to drop Dreamslayer into the first rank, attack, bounce it, play Barnas, spend Barnas to drop Dreamslayer into the first rank, attack with it. At the end of the turn play Severed of Flesh to recur it back into the first rank or rather than attacking with it, you could use it to play Stolen Destiny on an important opposing rank-holder. I started 2x Cal Blackborne because he could play Extensions. Honestly, Flippy, and I really don't want to come off as mean, arrogant, jerkish, or whatever, but I consistently see you in these types of threads trying to "eke out" decklists from people, in the sense that you start a thread with "what's a good way to do X" and then consistently respond with "that's a good idea! anything else?" From the perspective of someone who takes a lot of pride in tweaking tournament caliber decks and running with ideas to make them better, a lot of your "input" in this thread (and others like it) comes off as a kind of begging. Allow me to point you to a useful link: http://www.temple-of-lore.com/spoiler/search.phpDon't take it personally, just...try to think for yourself a bit more. And you're going to take it personally, anyway, I'm sure, so I'll go ahead and amend with an apology and further disclaimer: It seems like you are really into the strategic design of building a deck, because in looking back at some of your posts you are somewhat contributing and giving reasonings for some of your ideas. I say you are really into the strategic design of building a deck, because, at least from what I can see from you, it's almost like you want your deck to be "perfect" when you sit down for a game. That's unrealistic. People can deck-tech all day long, but, ultimately, it's going to be your personal playtesting against people in your area that determines the final decklist. Ancients is simply an enormous environment, and at some point in the deck-tech process, the entire concept of deck-teching becomes a moot point, because all the best or most useful ideas will have already been thrown out, and no deck can do everything, or win against everything. My suggestion to you is that you do a lot of playtesting, identify weaknesses based on actual playtesting, then use the card search feature on the Temple that Vhati was so kind to provide, try and find solutions to your weaknesses, apply them to your deck, playtest again, and, if they don't work out, come back to the thread and ask for advice. The best advice, the kind that will help you, in the long run, the most is to tell you that nothing will make you a better player than forcing you to stand on your own two feet. I like you. I like your passion for the game. I like that you are interested in advanced card interactions. I think you would value yourself more if you were a larger contributor toward your own decks.  -nihil
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| Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:12 pm |
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FlippyDoo
Inner Circle
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:37 pm Posts: 973 Location: Mass
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 Re: TOTAL Dorath Control
Your right, it may seem that way but I do use the advanced search quite often. Yes I do come off as begging and see your point. Ill fix that, and now back to the deck. It has changed a lot and will edit the first post with the newest deck and see what people think. Also this:  |  |  |  | Nihilistiskism wrote: I ran an extremely effective Dorath deck that was built around Dreamslayer, Jackhals of Mourne, Face of Mirrors, Illusionary Script, Wheel of Death, Phantasm, Illusory Form, Waking Terrors, Paralysis Ward, Severed of Flesh, Reflect, Stolen Destiny, Barrow Wight, and Barnas. The deck was exceptionally powerful. Why? The right combination of control and blitz. The deck hit hard, relatively fast, and had nifty irritations for the opponent. Phantasm a Jackhals into play, attack with it, bounce it to your hand, play Illusionary Script, retrieve another Jackhals, play Jackhals, blink it forward, attack, play Jackhals, blink it forward, attack. WOW! How about spend to drop Dreamslayer into the first rank, attack, bounce it, play Barnas, spend Barnas to drop Dreamslayer into the first rank, attack with it. At the end of the turn play Severed of Flesh to recur it back into the first rank or rather than attacking with it, you could use it to play Stolen Destiny on an important opposing rank-holder. I started 2x Cal Blackborne because he could play Extensions. |  |  |  |  |
helped a lot. I like my Gallows Fiend start because I can cast two spend orders in one turn and helps me with the win condition which is like you said, what I needed. My plan is to stun someone, kill off they're army and kill them with Blade Dancer. Obviously if that doesn't work I just go to town on blitz and use Jackals, Dreamslayer and all those good characters. I'm probably going to main deck a Tyren just so if i faced ranged he can protect my second rank too. The deck has proven well against Rathra Dak, Raziel, Duty, Rac Ironbone and a couple others. Up next is a decklist in the first post. 
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| Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:34 pm |
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Nihilistiskism
Lava Shark
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 5:00 pm Posts: 9238 Location: Texas
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 Re: TOTAL Dorath Control
I strongly suggest removing Sanctuary in favor of Staff of Secrets. It's an item, and so sticks around with a permanence that Sanctuary does not. I see 6 spend-orders, but you claim to be starting Gallows Fiend so that you can play multiple spend orders 1st turn. Add to that the fact that I believe there are superior choices for control spells that are just Orders, such as Waking Terrors, Illusionary Script, etc. that might work better in the deck. -nihil
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| Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:37 pm |
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FlippyDoo
Inner Circle
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:37 pm Posts: 973 Location: Mass
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 Re: TOTAL Dorath Control
Maybe taking Sanctuary out but it has helped me out too, trying to fit in Waking Terrors and Illuisionary Script, dont know what to take out for both of them, i would think I need at least the script at 3x.
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| Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:07 pm |
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Nihilistiskism
Lava Shark
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 5:00 pm Posts: 9238 Location: Texas
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 Re: TOTAL Dorath Control
Frozen March isn't that great of a crowd-controller. I'd sooner run Pull the Strings than that card. For Illusionary Script I'd take out the Elemental Barrage. It's an...ok card. What does it really do in Ancients other than (sort of) potentially screw with the back ranks of an opposing army. At DC 15 the check isn't really "out there" and is well within the realm of plausibility for most characters to make. You'll probably get much more use out of Illusionary Script than Elemental Barrage. -nihil
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| Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:09 pm |
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AragornRoR
Baron-Administrator Darth Crimson
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2002 5:00 pm Posts: 25107 Location: San Diego, CA
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 Re: TOTAL Dorath Control
I figured Barrage was to use on his own characters; that's always how I've seen it used. 
_________________Kasugoan's Redemption • Slayer of the Silvered Fount • Warlord Story Team, Retired • Order of the Doomed Liver-Darth Cider • 2009 ToL Keeper Fantasy League Champion • 2010 & 2011 ToL Football Pick 'em Champion
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| Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:15 pm |
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FlippyDoo
Inner Circle
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:37 pm Posts: 973 Location: Mass
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 Re: TOTAL Dorath Control
 |  |  |  | Nihilistiskism wrote: Frozen March isn't that great of a crowd-controller. I'd sooner run Pull the Strings than that card. For Illusionary Script I'd take out the Elemental Barrage. It's an...ok card. What does it really do in Ancients other than (sort of) potentially screw with the back ranks of an opposing army. At DC 15 the check isn't really "out there" and is well within the realm of plausibility for most characters to make. You'll probably get much more use out of Illusionary Script than Elemental Barrage. -nihil |  |  |  |  |
Thats the thing is that Elemental Barrage, most of the time draws me a card, and I can targetmy own characters like jackals and Dreamslayer. Pull the Strings is lower-level and thatmade me not want to put it in. Illusionary Script does need to go in though, card draw 
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| Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:46 pm |
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KingofGlobia
Inner Circle
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:37 am Posts: 1387 Location: Medford/Eugene, OR
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 Re: TOTAL Dorath Control
Elemental Barrage is golden with Jackals of Mourn and Dreamslayer, because they both have 0 skill. I agree with putting in more illusionists to capitalize on Dreamslayer though. Barnas is a great choice, he can be very annoying.
_________________The more the die roll matters, the more likely it is to disappoint. KingofGlobia's Trading Post
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| Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:58 pm |
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FlippyDoo
Inner Circle
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:37 pm Posts: 973 Location: Mass
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 Re: TOTAL Dorath Control
Who would I take out for Barnas if I were to play him? Maybe Ghost Bog but its Ghost Bog. I need all those characters. I think Dorath is enough because I shouldn't be drawing into two in a row. 
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| Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:12 pm |
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Nihilistiskism
Lava Shark
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 5:00 pm Posts: 9238 Location: Texas
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 Re: TOTAL Dorath Control
Antaelus, Krotchgut, and 1 Death Fog. And you'll draw into more than 1 if you run illusionary script. And roughly 1 in ten games you'll draw 2 in your opening hand, anyway.  -nihil
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| Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:48 pm |
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FlippyDoo
Inner Circle
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:37 pm Posts: 973 Location: Mass
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 Re: TOTAL Dorath Control
I personally have experienced not running 19 characters and I dont like it, and for a deck that needs ranks I dont know if that is the right swap, Im considering one Crushing Hands and Ring of the Savant. The ring I haven't used once! and one Crushing hands will leave it down to 2x which I think will be fine. 
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| Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:07 am |
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Nihilistiskism
Lava Shark
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 5:00 pm Posts: 9238 Location: Texas
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 Re: TOTAL Dorath Control
...Antaelus, Krotchgut, and Death Fog are all characters. I didn't suggest reducing the characters to below 19.  -nihil
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| Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:24 am |
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FlippyDoo
Inner Circle
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:37 pm Posts: 973 Location: Mass
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 Re: TOTAL Dorath Control
Oh sorry I thought you were suggesting to take those characters out for Illusionary Script  Also coming from ones perspective of playing Barnas wouldn't someone just kill him when he enters play?
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| Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:05 am |
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Oremm
Command Staff
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:25 am Posts: 4750
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 Re: TOTAL Dorath Control
Then don't play him into ready characters/strikes.
_________________New York Jankees ~ Curator of NY's Cube
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| Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:34 pm |
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FlippyDoo
Inner Circle
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:37 pm Posts: 973 Location: Mass
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 Re: TOTAL Dorath Control
I just think that in Legacy its harder to tell when that is.
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| Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:27 pm |
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